SIGCT+2009+Breakfast+Planning+Discussion

Due to everyone's busy schedule, Joe and Luci created a summation of your ideas for NECC 2009 Breakfast Forum. Please read and edit as needed. 1. Review, add, and edit. 2. Be ready come to some final decisions by Oct. 26, 2008

On September 11, 2008, Joe Kmoch began the discussion: We've begun to plan our SIGCT Breakfast Forum for NECC 2009. We're thinking about putting together a panel with some government officials to deal with issues related to Computer Science and Information Technology workforce issues (like there will be 1.5 million openings in next 8 years, only elipsed by registered nurses and very low paying service jobs) and K-12 education. Some of the issues related to this issue do revolve around administrators (both district and school). That's why it might make sense for SIGAdmin and SIGCT to work together on this. Is this collaborative effort something we can talk about rather soon? Whether it results in some kind of collaboration at a Breakfast forum or some other kind of session, I think it makes sense to have something at NECC about this. On September 18, Joe Kmoch stated: I have asked for help from Don Knezek (haven't received a response as yet) and also from Audrey Vanderford (I asked her to ask him). I also write the president of SIGAdmin the following email, but haven't received a response as yet, either. I did email her back. I'll talk with Audrey to see if it's possible to get Don to help us out. Anyway, that's where we're at now. I agree, we ought to plan it out enough so that we can begin marketing it at least and getting any presenters working on their presentations. On September 13, 2008, Jeff Foster wrote: As for topics/speakers for the Forum:  I also thought that since we're in DC that it might make sense to have some kind panel related to legislative and education initiatives related to CS/IT workforce issues and the help we need in K-12. Good idea. Could we hone in on the new House Bill and relate this to our job with regard to teaching these teachers? If we don’t, of course, who will? A. On MythBusters, there is Grant Imahara: EE and robotics whiz. His design won the Battle Bots competition and really knows his stuff. Also, Karie Byron- same show, math teacher, great hostess. B. On Smash Lab, Deanne Bell is an engineer who specializes in far out ideas for resolving problems. These folks could draw a crowd and a Lady Engineer can cover a lot of interest levels. It is rumored that Deanne will replace Karie soon so she might still be cheap. On September 18, 2008 Jeff Foster wrote: I did some checking and found that at $15000 each, Grant and Karie are out. But, Deanne is $7500 and will only need travel from Connecticut. I don't know if anyone is really interested in this but I sent some data to Leslie and Michelle Friend just in case they had any ideas for using her in a keynote (or more minor role as I am sure the keynote for this one will be some prominent Washingtonian) paying her bill and giving her to us for a few bucks. (Just exploring all possibilities. She's good- check the show. I like Michelle's idea on a panel dealing with advocacy, too. I'm hoping, though that along with perhaps someone from ACM, that we could also get in touch with a legislator who might be able to send someone in his office that could at least speak to our issues.  In Wisconsin, I discovered the following:  Senator Kohl is on the Labor, Health, Human Services and Education committee  Rep Thomas Petri is on the Education and Labor committee  Rep David Obey is on the Labor Health and Human Services and Education committee  Before anyone writes any letters requesting their services, I think we need to pull the ideas and focus of the panel together and then send out a common letter to anyone who might listen to us. This means that since we have about 8 people on the Breakfast Forum committee, we can probably reach even more people, but we'll need to speak and ask with one voice. Perhaps, too, once we identify who we want to attend, we can get Don Knezek to do some personal contacting of their offices in DC. Let's go for it, especially since we're in DC this year. On Sep 23, 2008, at 5:39 PM, Jeff Foster wrote: Here is a good idea from Michelle which goes hand in hand with yours as everyone involved in convenient.  At the Leadership Conference it was suggested that we invite our Congressmen to attend part of next year’s function. Do you know any Congressmen to invite? I know several but they all (Democrats and Republicans) disowned me when I became an Independent. However, Lloyd Doggett’s father was a dentist here so maybe he’ll come.  Hi Jeff, I haven't seen Smash Lab or even heard of it to be honest. I don't watch much TV, though, so maybe others have. I'm trying to think of who is located around the DC area who would be cool and not charge a fortune. I take it that the goal is to attract people who wouldn't normally attend? Because if that isn't an explicit goal (or possibly even if it is) I think a great presentation would be to get together a panel of people to talk about advocacy. I'm sure Cameron Wilson from ACM would be willing to attend and there are other great resources in DC like the National Academies and National Science Foundation. Heck, NPR is located in DC, could we get Ira Flatow or someone? (Okay, it turns out Ira Flatow lives in Connecticut. But SOMEONE must live in DC!) I'll see who else I can think of that would be neat... sadly there's no one really coming to mind. --Michelle On Sep 23, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Jeff Foster wrote: Hi, Michelle    I am only a week or two from finishing the corrections. Meanwhile… we are trying to choose a theme for the DC breakfast forum. I would like to get someone prominent in the filed of computing/engineering who would attract a lot of interest. One possibility is Deanne Bell, ME from Smash Lab (have you seen it on Discovery?)( I believe?). <span style="color: navy; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;">Her honorarium is $7500 and I haven’t even approached ISTE yet for fear of rejection. Any ideas? <span style="color: navy; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;"> <span style="color: navy; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;">Jeff <span style="color: navy; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;"> <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;">On September 23, 2008 Joe wrote: To set the stage for you, I initially made a comment indicating that since we'd be in DC, we might want to get some of our government and educational leaders involved in a panel or in some other way during this Breakfast Forum. Last Thursday I commented --- I also thought that since we're in DC that it might make sense to have some kind panel related to legislative and education initiatives related to CS/IT workforce issues and the help we need in K-12. --- and then a little later in the day...  --- While I began pursuing the panel of DC people, I am by no means married to this idea - I just proposed this to get going on some development of the content of the Forum and figured that since we were in DC, that it might make sense for a couple of those people could be on a panel, make some statements about CS/IT (preferably we would pose some they would focus their panelist comments around) and then take questions from the audience (some of which I think we would either plant or derive from some discussion and comments from our SIGCT mailing list). --- Additionall Michelle Hutton (one of our SIGCT members and also President of CSTA) offered a couple of suggestions which Jeff Foster is following up on, along with several suggestions of his own. At this point, we're still in idea mode, so to speak. So presumably all of us will start using reply/all to let the information fly. We do have the month of October to develop our ideas, come up with a title, a description and a list of participants on the panel or whatever. <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;">On Sept. 24, 2008 Karen North wrote: I like the idea of a panel of DC people. I think advocacy is need to bring greatly needed resources. But, I think we also need presenters to show the Washington people that we teach all accountability tested subjects - math and English through problem solving and hands-on application. Please see http://www.csta.acm.org/About/sub/AdvocacyOutreach.html for what CSTA is doing. <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;"> On Sep 25, 2008, at 12:17 AM, Scott Horan wrote: > If my rep, Ann Northup, gets elected (re-elected), she might like to > come as she is VERY active on the education committees. Will we have > a policy that Congress people get in free? On Sept. 25, 2008, Karen North wrote: I sure hope that all legislators will be invited formally to attend free. Most would only come for a short time. In fact, it would be nice if they had special name badges so attendees would know. Maybe Steve could check on this with the ISTE board. On Sept. 25, Bill Glass from Terrapin Wrote: I can provide a free pass to the exhibit to any of the speakers. On Oct. 2, 2008 Jeff Foster wrote: I have been reading our email and also making a few contacts for ideas for the forum. Thus far I haven't seen anything concrete so here are a few ideas to kick around: Theme: Implementing the Higher Education Act Reauthorization bill: The Role of SIGCT Create a panel consisting of two SIGCT board members, reps from CSTA, SIGTE (Hilary Goldman and or others), plus 2 representatives for the Senate and/or house Education Committee- not necessarily elected members because, as Audrey explained, they won't show, but rather their Chief's of Staff or other member of their staff. I was for it, Scott, but now I am against it. I understand that our reps are willing to see us in their offices so it wouldn't hurt for each of us to make plans to drop by and drop off literature. Next, we invite the press to attend (if anything will get legislators there, this will do it.) Discuss all of the ramifications of the bill as well as all other efforts already being made by SIGCT, SIGTE, CSTA et al. and all related aspects, including time and money needed. I would have to presume that computing teachers are going to be at the center of this (and already are, of course) but this presents a good "photo op." We have been looking for ways to help establish our prominence and this would appear to fall right into our laptops. If properly planned, this can do us a world of good. New ideas? Embellishments? Comments? On Oct 2, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Thompson, John T. wrote: Thanks for your suggestion, Jeff. It's an interesting concept. However, IMHO, it is not a topic that will draw in paying participants nor necessarily be seen as advancing the specific cause or direct interests of SIGCT members. I'd suggest we stick with CT/CS/IT topics that more directly impact on SIGCT members. Aren't there any dynamic/controversial CT/CS/IT people out there who can present and chew gum at the same time and who will be a magnet/lightning rod to excite members enough so that they pay the registration fee to attend? What's our speaker budget? On Oct 2, 2008, Joe wrote: I've asked Audrey at ISTE about using our carryover budget. We might try for someone like Marc Prensky and maybe we could get him and ISTE could also split his expenses - he draws pretty large crowds and his article in Edutopia < http://www.edutopia.org/print/5142 > has been cited and handed out recently in various venues that I've been at. He was brought into Milwaukee Public Schools district meetings and I know he spoke to at least two near-capacity crowds in an auditorium setting. That's a thought. I'll get back to the group when I hear from Audrey. Hi Joe, For next year's breakfast, you might consider Jeannette Wing, since she's now in Washington heading the CISE division of NSF. If you need any assistance with asking her, let me know. Best wishes, Tom Cortina On Oct 2, Joe Wrote: I heard from Audrey. She said that there is no speaker budget per se. I'm not sure if this means for SIGs or for NECC speakers. She did also note that there is a $450 stipend for a 3 hour workshop - probably the only guideline that I know of for "speakers." Also she noted (and I know) that we have in excess of $2000 in our "carryover" fund which has fewer restrictions than the yearly budget. At this point, not having any other guidelines, that we contact both Jeanette Wing at NSF in DC and Marc Prensky from New York to see if they have an interest in delivering a session and Q&A afterward that is interesting and useful (dare I say compelling) to our membership and also determine their expenses. The committee can then make a decision based on these facts. In addition to contacting Audrey, I have also contacted Anita McAnear to see if the NECC program committee might consider bringing a speaker into the larger conference and allowing us to piggyback on their speaker for our Breakfast Forum. This might be particularly important for Prensky, since I think his expenses are going to be quite a bit more. For future NECCs, I am going to propose both to the SIGCouncil and to the SIGBoard that SIGs be more involved with the major, costly speakers for NECC. At this time, I don't know how major speakers are chosen for NECC, nor who they are. It does make sense to me that the SIGs be involved or at least informed as to who the major NECC speakers are - seems to me - if they're bringing someone in who would also be appropriate for a SIG acivity, that we be allowed to negotiate their involvement along with their NECC activities. We do this with state conferences, so NECC could also do this. - we should be allowed to recommend major speakers who can also be involved in activities with our SIG. If SIGs can be involved in this process, I think this will help our SIG and other SIGs function better. This is probably more than you all wanted to hear. On Oct. 4, Joe wrote: The link to her original article that appeared in Communications of the ACM is at this URL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wing/www/publications/Wing06.pdf She knows Tom Cortina well (she was the CS Dept head at CMU). Tom could also I'm sure address Alice along with his experiences in developing materials to support Computational Thinking On Oct 5, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Thompson, John T. wrote: > Couple of quick comments/questions... > > 1. > We need to be mindful of speaker fees. Do we have an upper limit for > speaker fees (presentation, travel, etc.)? We should know that before > we contact anyone. > > 2.  > More fundamental -- What is the intended purpose for having a speaker > - professional development for SIGCT members, "draw" to bring in > breakfast registrants, how far afield do you want to get from SIGCT > mission, etc.? On Oct. 5, 2008 Lucianne Brown Hello, Two Items: A. I received this response from my contact in Washington DC with a suggestion that I did not think of. However, we may want to add Susan Patrick to our short list. Please read the suggestion below. I asked Kathy McGuigan, from Washington DC. suggested that you contact Susan Patrick at the North America Council of Online Learning (NACOL). She used to be the ed tech director at the US Department of Ed. She could talk about online learning for K-12, building a future workforce, etc. You find more information at: http://www.nacol.org/about/president.php B. In summation from most of our exchange of email about the SIGCT Breakfast Forum suggestions...please correct or add or delete: "Programming: The New Literacy" or "Computational Thinking" or “Preparing the Workforce” ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> Marc Prensky ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> Mitch Resnick MIT Lab ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> Brian Harvey ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> Jeanette Wing ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> Kathleen Schrock ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> Brian Harvey ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> Susan Patrick ·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size-adjust: none; font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"> <span style="font-family: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif';">MythBusters, there is Grant Imahara: EE and robotics whiz. His design won the Battle Bots competition and really knows his stuff. Also, Karie Byron- same show, math teacher, great hostess. <span style="font-family: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif';"> Unfortunately too expensive $15,000 On Oct. 5, Karen North Wrote > 2. I think the purpose should be to draw attendance at the breakfast in order to build membership in the SIGCT. All presenters could support the SIGCT mission by the topic of their presentation. 1. I think we should send a letter to all and see who might do it for free that might already be in Washington DC. The list is so impressive, anyone could talk on computing issues. If all want to do it, have a panel discussion. Yes, I know I am dreaming, Hi Luci (and everyone else) Thanks for putting the impressive list of possible speakers. Is our next step to vote, prioritize or ??? Great involvement by many of you! On Oct. 5, 2008 Joe Wrote: The other thing - I've included the other members of the original program committee (notably RJ Dake, Bill Glass and Rich Lamb) on this and presumably subsequent mailings. To those three - we need your input, too and we apologize for not always including you. And thanks, Bill, for offering free tickets to the exhibits for any presenter. On Oct. 5, 2008, Joe wrote: Hi, all Answer for #1 In our Carryover Funds, which we have a little more leeway on, there's over $2500. I've been told that we can use these funds to directly support our membership in SIGCT. Thus, we've used these funds to pay for travel and some expenses plus honoraria for the speaker(s) at the SIGCT sponsored workshop. These are the funds which would also pay the $6 er hour per participant in any webinars we might hold. My usual approach to asking people to speak (I've been involved in some Wisconsin state meetings) is to make our proposal and if the speaker is interested, to indicate their expectations for expenses and fees. At that point, we might begin negotiations if things are in the ballpark of what we might be able to afford. I don't think NECC is currently set up to co-sponsor a speaker, though I've proposed this for future NECC conferences. (As an aside, we cannot use these funds to provide additional support for officer attendance at meetings, at least that's what I was told a year or so ago). Answer for #2 I would advance this, and maybe this needs further discussion. I think any sessions or workshops we support need to be in line with our mission which in informal terms is teaching and learning about computing. Call it IT, CS, Computation Thinking, whatever, it essentially should support the IT Career Pathways which includes both concepts and skills, software development/programming, web design and development/programing, database design and development (information systems) and networking and support functions. So, computer science is part of this as is IT, IS and SE as defined by ACM. (My President's Opinion column in the soon to be released JCT talks more about this). Maybe I'm missing something here, so I'm good for discussing this more. Of course, I also think that at the Breakfast Symposium, this should not be dealing with organizational matters of SIGCT, but should offer real and interesting content (what I'd call professional development). Certainly, if we can find someone would would be a draw, this would be "icing in the cake". I think it's up to us to make sure we strongly and regularly market whatever we do. On Oct 5,2008 Jeff Foster wrote: All: I have been reading everyone's suggestions and wondering where, at which point, I have missed the point of the forum. At least John has brought up one of my concerns: Our SIG mission. So, I will play the Devil's Advocate (or, for some of you, just the devil). I'll start with the positives: 1. Each speaker suggested is well qualified 2. Each could present a topic that would help some- but not all of our membership. But, these topics appear to be "quantum leaps" from our objectives (i.e. teaching students). Now, the negatives for selecting any one of these speakers: 1. Recently ISTE has helped mold new legislation that should be of the utmost importance to those of us who teach computing. Am I wrong, or does it appear to anyone else that this will be our job to carry out? If so, would this topic appeal to those who will shoulder the burden? 2. The venue (Washington DC)is perfect for doing advocacy and, at the same time, establishing ourselves and our significance. We have been complaining for two years about not getting the kind of recognition we deserve from ISTE. 3. Both ISTE and CSTA have offered to help us with the original (and now totally forgotten)idea for helping implement this bill and/or work on  advocacy. Perhaps, this will be covered elsewhere at NETS. If so, then please consider the other suggestions. 4. We are representatives of a rather diverse array of computing teachers, ranging from entry level to advanced IT to CS. Each of these speakers appears on the surface to be heavy on CS. Less than 1/3 have degrees in Computer Science at last count. 5. Last year Chris Stephenson stated that whatever we offer at the forum should be something practical that can be taken to the classroom and used in our teaching. I don't see these topics being something that would do this for more than a tiny percentage of our members. Nor do I see it as part of our mission. I am surprised, Lucy, that this was not included in your list of options. So, do we want to abandon this one time opportunity to take our message to the people we try so hard to influence and, at the same time, turn our backs on ISTE? I think that our support of their (our) initiative would go along way to helping establish our net worth. Let me say that I understand that a CS member would not be too excited about teaching basic computing skills. That would be like a heart surgeon having to attend a seminar on the use of bedpans. But, we do have two very distinct groups, often with very dissimilar interests. Last year we had one speaker, Karen, that crossed over from IT to CS and provided something that many of our members could use. I'd like to see more of this. Lego has a nice program along these lines that is certainly more useful/practical than some of these more specialized topics. Perhaps we could design a program with two speakers/topics, one IT and one CS. I don't see how the speakers mentioned, should they be the only presenters, could do this. Otherwise, it's not fair to one group or another. Or, perhaps we should be two SIGS: CT and CS with joint membership. Or, agree to rotate topics every year so that everyone had an opportunity to learn something that is pertinent to his or her career every two years. I'd like to solicit Scott's input as his involvement is heavy on the practical aspects of teaching computing. We need very much to teach these "high end" skills but we also need to remember that 95% of High School graduates will not become engineers, programmers, CS majors, or engage in any other field relating to CS. To limit our speakers to the needs and interests of teachers who specialize in this limited area is unfair to those whose responsibility is more basic and generalized. Personally, I like the Games and Simulation SIG option, combined with some sort of effort to support the bill, taking advantage of our presence in DC. Again we represent ISTE and 4000 dues paying members. It would be nice (but probably impractical) if we could canvas the entire membership and get their vote. Next best thing: let's ask ISTE. Here's another consideration: After exploring all of the possibilities for getting funding for those of you (6) who expressed an interest, I had come to the conclusion that the only shot we had was for Joe and/or I to write a letter to your administration that went something like this (paraphrased): "Our meeting in Washington DC is one of great significance as we will be meeting with our Congressmen and exploring the ways we can bring all teachers in your district into the Digital Age and at the same time, seek the funding necessary for this all important initiative. The ultimate winner will be the student, teachers, and businessmen in your community. We need all of our officers there. Therefore, we would respectfully request that you appropriate travel funds for (your name)." This may be a "reach" but it has more impact than simply saying that we are going to hear speakers that offer very little to our districts/schools. On the positive side: with only 60 or so seats available, it is quite likely that whatever topic/speaker we choose will appeal only to a very small percent of membership and, even though not drawing from the remainder, could still fill the room. So, I am not going to stand in the way of the use of a speaker who may be satisfy your needs should the majority of you want this. But, I will go on record as saying that the opportunity to satisfy so many goals will be lost. As for fees: I think this is a bad idea. We are trying to get more attendance/more income. It would take a huge attendance at $20 a pop to even break even. OK. That's it for now. I hope we can come to an agreement that satisfies all needs soon. Scott Horan on October 6,2008 11:56:22pm writes: If we have a panel, here are my suggestions:
 * <span style="font-family: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif';">Here are some other ideas: **<span style="font-family: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif';"> If we had money for an honorarium, there is a small handful of celebrity engineers/robotics engineers/computer experts.
 * <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;">From: ** <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;"> <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;">Michelle Hutton [mailto:mhutton@girlsms.org]
 * Sent:** Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:18 PM
 * To:** Jeff Foster
 * Subject:** Re: CDs and handout from SIGCT breakfast
 * <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%;">From: **<span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%;">"Thomas J Cortina" <tcortina@cs.cmu.edu>
 * <span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%;">On **<span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%;">October 2, 2008 Thomas Cortina wrote
 * Topics **
 * Short List of possible speakers **
 * <span style="font-family: 'Arial Narrow','sans-serif';">On Smash Lab, Deanne Bell is an engineer who specializes in far out ideas for resolving problems. These folks could draw a crowd and a Lady Engineer can cover a lot of interest levels. It is rumored that Deanne will replace Karie soon so she might still

I am not sure if I we have talked in this direction before, but CompTIA has a new president and a new VP for education. I met with the VP, who is an engineer and has a passion for education. His background is retooling the automotive industry and industrial processes. He and Gretchen Koch, his Education Director, who some of you have met and talked to would be great additions to a panel, if that was the structure we were using.

Another exciting person is David Saedi <Sah-eed>, who is the president of Certiport, and who is a passionate speaker about global standards in computing education. His company developed the IC-3, the MOS exams, and the new Adobe series of Associate (ie., HS) Certifications.

These are business world people who deal with schools as part of their larger educational mission. They deal with business expectations of the computing part of schools, and see CS as a part of their total mission and not its entirety. Both have worked at trying to formulate standards and exams to test competence with computer languages. Neither has successfully closed the deal (in large part due to the exclusionary effects of the AP CS exams). As that exam has sputtered of late, a door is opening; and both have talked about a future for an industry-wide set of CS assessments, like what exists in all of the other areas of IT. A discussion involving folks like that coupled with university experts would be interesting as they would keep the perspective wide. Their knowledge of "the industry" is much wider than that of university folks.

The other thing that Gretchen would offer is that she is in charge of the IT Cluster for the States' Directors Career Cluster program. She musters a huge committee of involved folks representing CS, Web Design, Networking, and Repair and Support/Service interests. She works quite a bit with the Dept of Education and speaks at a number of national conferences. She has worked in both education and industry (where her background before CompTIA was with HP/Compaq/Digital).

Scott Horan, IT Internship and Resource Teacher School to Career Office Van Hoose Education Center, 3332 Newburg Road Louisville, KY 40218 (502) 619-3132 cell 485-3320 office scott.horan@jefferson.kyschools.us shoran@insightbb.com